Subject: rectifier wiring From: "Brian Graham" <bgraham@geaf.com <mailto:bgraham@geaf.com>> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 08:28:54 -0600 I "inherited" a Durst 30 amp rectifier w/ my organ. (It wasn't originally part of the organ). I'm not sure how to wire it, or how to wire the organ to it. The posts on the internal rectifier buss bar are as follows: 1,2,3,4,12V, 13V, 14V, 15V, POS, NEG The only wiring diagram on the case shows four points, 1, 2, 3 & 4. For = 110 V operation the diagram shows 2 wires coming in. One to attach to posts 1 & 2 and the other to attach to posts 3 & 4. For 220 V operation, posts 2 & 3 are wired to each other and the wires coming in are attached to posts 1 & 4. In both cases, there are two wires coming in, and there is no indication as to whether these wires are hot or neutral. There is a wire from one of the internal components of the rectifier to = the 12V post. Questions: 1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V power? There is only enough space left in my electrical panel for one 220 breaker, which I was going to use for the blower. Could the rectifier go on the same circuit as the blower? 2) Does it matter which post the AC hot and neutral wires are attached to? (The wiring diagram doesn't indicate which is which.) 3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before I hook it up to the organ? 4) There are buss bars in the console, on the legs of the chests, etc. Do = I simply run a wire from each positive buss bar to a positive buss bar at the rectifier, ditto for negative? Or is it not that simple. Is any power regulation device required between the rectifier and the organ? Thanks in advance!

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com <mailto:ron@sensor.com>> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 09:53:37 -0500 To the rectifier itself, it cares not which is hot or neutral, it sees only the difference between the two. The only way it makes a difference is if for some stupid reason, one side is connected to the case (which should NOT be). Check it with a ohm meter. If one side is, then make sure that one goes to neutra. > Questions: > 1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V > power? The thing should work just fine on 110. The thing should draw far less than 15 amps, you could put it on just about any circuit. I would *NOT* put it on the blower circuit. Leave that for the motor alone (though I have to admit,that many are wired up that way purely for convenience purposes). > > 3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before = I > hook it up to the organ? Connect it up to the AC and then measure the voltage on the DC wires. Should be 12V (or whatever you've jumped the thing). > > 4) There are buss bars in the console, on the legs of the chests, etc. = Do I > simply run a wire from > each positive buss bar to a positive buss bar at the rectifier, ditto = for > negative? Just hook up the wires to the bus.

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Larry Chace" <RLC1@etnainstruments.com <mailto:RLC1@etnainstruments.com>> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 11:34:26 -0500 Brian Graham asked about wiring his Durst rectifier. I'd offer the following suggestions. The wire "from the internal components" is used to select the final output voltage; connect it to the terminal labelled with that voltage: 12V, 13V, 14V, or 15V. POS and NEG are the outputs. This is the time to add fuses to the DC wiring, something that was not = done "in the old days" but which is now required by the National Electric Code and which makes good sense. I'm not an electrician, and I don't play one on TV, so you should find a more official source for information. (There have been posts to PIPORG-L in the past by builders who are licensed electricians. I'll try to find some of those and re-post here.) The details of how to split the DC feed and return wires depend somewhat = on how your instrument was wired in the first place, but in general you will split off from the heavy feed (or return), using a fuse in the 4 to 6 amp range for each branch, which will then be carried by at least a 14 gauge copper wire. The idea to limit the rectifier's ability to convert itself into an arc-welder should a short circuit develop. You will also have to consider the other DC wiring. The NEC says that if you "move" the old double cotton covered wiring, then you must replace it with new wiring with approved insulation (PVC, etc.). Time to go find those other notes... Larry Chace

Subject: rectifier wiring From: "Richard Schneider" <arpncorn@davesworld.net <mailto:arpncorn@davesworld.net>> Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2000 16:53:09 -0600 Larry Chace wrote: > Brian Graham asked about wiring his Durst rectifier. I'd offer the > following suggestions. > The wire "from the internal components" is used to select the final = output > voltage; connect it to the terminal labelled with that voltage: 12V, = 13V, > 14V, or 15V. POS and NEG are the outputs. > > This is the time to add fuses to the DC wiring, something that was not = done > "in the old days" but which is now required by the National Electric = Code > and which makes good sense. I'm not an electrician, and I don't play = one > on TV, so you should find a more official source for information. = (There > have been posts to PIPORG-L in the past by builders who are licensed > electricians. I'll try to find some of those and re-post here.) Well, I don't play one on TV either (although I do play one on organ installation job; and for a good reason: I AM one!!!) > The details of how to split the DC feed and return wires depend somewhat = on > how your instrument was wired in the first place, but in general you = will > split off from the heavy feed (or return), using a fuse in the 4 to 6 = amp > range for each branch, which will then be carried by at least a 14 gauge > copper wire. The idea to limit the rectifier's ability to convert = itself > into an arc-welder should a short circuit develop. This usually entails that each windchest (in the case of Electro-Mechanical action) should have its own return to that 6 amp fuse. One "handy" thing to use is the new-style "automotive" fuses that are brightly colored pieces of plastic with two inline "tabs" on them. Any decent auto supply store has inexpensive fuse blocks you can mount inside the organ structure to run the junctions back to. Unfortunately, 6 amps is an "odd" sized fuse, so you'll likely have to go with the more ubiquitous 5 amp size. > You will also have to consider the other DC wiring. The NEC says that = if > you "move" the old double cotton covered wiring, then you must replace = it > with new wiring with approved insulation (PVC, etc.). The "etc." is self-soldering magnet wire. This is easy to work with and makes very small cable harnesses, although the mind rebels at the idea of "bare-looking" wire in contact with so many others not being a short waiting to happen! A couple of other notes: Grounding is very important to an organ installation. Some things *want* to be grounded, while others do not. One thing for sure, make sure your DC output is NOT grounded on either side. But DO make sure that your rectifier case IS grounded (use a separate green wire, not the neutral conductor, BTW!). If your area is prone to lightning problems, do what I do, which is to, first of all, put a computer grade surge suppresser on line for the rectifier input. Secondly, set up a double-pole, double throw relay so that when the organ is ON, the hot and neutral go through the contact points of the relay and into the rectifier. When the contactor is OFF, you want to have the rectifier tie down to ground on both sides, so that it will be immune to lightning strikes. >Questions: >1) Does it matter very much whether I hook the rectifier up to 110V or = 220V >power? There is only >enough space left in my electrical panel for one 220 breaker, which I was >going to use for the blower. It makes no difference. The rectifier doesn't "care", but do put it onto its own circuit breaker in any event. > Could the rectifier go on the same circuit as the blower? Don't do this. There are very many reasons, including the fact that blowers turn into generators when they're "coasting" to a stop off-line and send the power back into the rectifier if they're on the same circuit! >2) Does it matter which post the AC hot and neutral wires are attached = to? The transformer doesn't care, but as was already suggested: be sure that none of the input lines (1-2-3-4) are connected to the chassis case before you proceed. >3) Is there a simple way to test the functioning of the rectifier before = I > >hook it up to the organ? If it's going to run solid state, you may want to connect a good digital VOM to the output and set it on AC, to see if there's any "ripple" on the DC output that the solid state equipment won't like! If there is, get a good sized computer-grade power supply CAP, or even some of those Capacitors they're using in what I call "chickenheart" (thump-thump!) car sound systems nowadays to connect parallel to the output of the rectifier DC. That will substantially smooth-out any AC ripple in the supply and basically eliminate it. This is a good idea anyway, but remember: these babies STORE electricity, and if you put a screwdriver across the terminals, even when the power's off, it'll put out a VERY healthy jolt! If you're going to simply run an old analog (non-solid-state) system, just get a 12VDC auto light bulb and hook it across the outputs! >Is any power regulation device required between the rectifier and >the organ? No. The Rectifier IS the power regulation device!! Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider

Subject: rectifier wiring From: "Brian Graham" <bgraham@geaf.com <mailto:bgraham@geaf.com>> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:50:03 -0600 Thanks to Ron Natalie, Larry Chace and Richard Schneider for the wiring tips! I'll take a while to think it over, look at the console and rectifier = again and probably come back with some additional questions. Even though my message probably wasn't worded correctly, my question about = a power "regulator" was based on the assumption that the positive = conductor from the rectifier would only connect to a positive buss bar in the console. This rectifier wasn't set up for this particular organ, and I was trying = to make sure that I didn't hook it up the first time and immediately melt half of the wires in the console. Bare with me, I'm not very electrically inclined, but does the rectifier basically make a potential current available, and something like the resistance of a closed circuit actually determines how much current flows? If it is true that the positive only connects to the console, then would I put fuses on the negative returns to the rectifier? Thanks!

(back) Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Richard Schneider" <arpncorn@davesworld.net <mailto:arpncorn@davesworld.net>> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:05:40 -0600 Brian Graham wrote: > Thanks to Ron Natalie, Larry Chace and Richard Schneider for the wiring > tips! I'll speak for everyone and say you're welcome! > I'll take a while to think it over, look at the console and rectifier = again > and > probably come back with some additional questions. Fire when ready. > Even though my message probably wasn't worded correctly, my question = about > a power "regulator" was based on the assumption that the positive = conductor > from > the rectifier would only connect to a positive buss bar in the console. Actually: there are usually BOTH bussbars in the console: a Positive *and* a negative. When nothing is on, generally the only thing that is running is the indicator bulb on the console that says "WIND", or some other similar innocuous device to tell you (unless the blower's loud enough to do it!) that the organ's running and you have "juice!" > This rectifier wasn't set up for this particular organ, and I was trying = to > make sure > that I didn't hook it up the first time and immediately melt half of the > wires in the console. Rectifiers are basically "generic" devices, in that the basic requirement is that they are capable of delivering the maximum amount of power that the organ requires. In other words: if the organ requires some 60 amps of power (and few do that you'll come across!), than a 30 amp supply ain't gonna cut it. The only time you'd have to worry about something melting is if there's some kind of short in the organ wiring, like a burned-out magnet (although that usually results in an "open", or dead circuit, rather than a short circuit). If the organ wiring is little better than a Rat's nest, then look out! > Bare with me, I'm not very electrically inclined, but does the rectifier > basically > make a potential current available, and something like the resistance of = a > closed > circuit actually determines how much current flows? There is a regulator circuit built within the rectifier itself that governs its output based upon the load connected to it, up to its maximum output. If you exceed that value, you then blow the rectifier output fuse. In other words: let's assume that most chest magnets, for the purposes of this discussion, consume a half-amp (this would be generally slightly high, but it makes the numbers work easier for calculation purposes) apiece. If you have on one stop, and push down 10 keys at once, you'd have, essentially speaking, a 5 amp load connected across the rectifier. If you then turn on an additional 3 stops, then the load increases to 15 amperes. All the while, the rectifier is (or SHOULD be!) doing it's job of making sure that the output voltage remains the same irrespective of the load connected to it. > If it is true that the positive only connects to the console, then would = I > put fuses > on the negative returns to the rectifier? Fusing depends greatly upon the kind of control and circuitry you use. Some solid state systems feed negative for chest returns while others use positive. Generally, if you're using an older non-solid-state system, the generally accepted practice is to use negative for the chest returns and positive for the console feeds. The correct wiring color code for DC "mains" voltage is black for the Negative and red for Positive. Don't use white colored wire at all! This coding serves the useful purpose of knowing what side of the line you're dealing with and making sure you don't connect something where it's not supposed to be and send the Rectifier to Mars in the process! Hopefully, this gives you a little clearer understanding of what's going on in the Rectifier's thought-process! They're alive, you know. . . :o) Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring -A sequel From: "Richard Schneider" <arpncorn@davesworld.net <mailto:arpncorn@davesworld.net>> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 17:30:03 -0600 Dear list, In re-reading my post about rectifiers, I realized that I guess I really didn't say *where* the fuses should go in the circuit. The best plan is to have them configured for the Windchest (or any other group of magnet loads) returns so that there's no more than 6 amps of load connected across any one circuit! This is the maximum allowable by the National Electric Code. The purpose of this is to protect the tiny wires (usually #26 or 28) that are running from the keys to the individual magnets. Also remember that this is the time to replace all of that nasty cotton-covered wire with either Nylese (self-soldering magnet wire) or else TELCO cable. And BE SURE YOU FOLLOW THE TELEPHONE COMPANY COLOR CODE OR ELSE YOU AND EVERYONE ELSE YOU KNOW WHO KNOWS AND WILL HAVE TO EVER SERVICE THE PIPE ORGAN WILL HATE YOU ETERNALLY AND DAMN YOU TO HELL FOR NOT FOLLOWING IT!!!!! By measuring the resistance and doing a little Ohm's Law, you can easily calculate just how many magnets you can place on each circuit. Also, it's a good idea to "de-rate" the circuit to about 80% of the connected load, so you don't blow fuses frequently, since magnets are inductive loads. So if we go back to my "example" of a half-amp load per magnet, then you'd be able to connect 10 magnets per fuse. That's a lot of "fussing" when one re-wires an organ, due to having to "break-out" the returns to several different fuses when heretofore they had been only one mundo-huge wire! This is one of the reasons it's such a good idea to just "solid state" the thing and be done with it when it's possible, since the commercially-built systems already take the fusing requirements into account through engineering and design. Peterson's systems are especially good about this and use those blade-type automotive fuses I'd suggested in an earlier post! Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Mac Hayes" <mach37@ptw.com <mailto:mach37@ptw.com>> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 05:05:49 -0800 Richard Schneider wrote: > Rectifiers are basically "generic" devices, in that the basic > requirement is that they are capable of delivering the maximum amount of > power that the organ requires. In other words: if the organ requires > some 60 amps of power (and few do that you'll come across!), than a 30 > amp supply ain't gonna cut it. Super information, Rich. Now, how about using multiple rectifiers? I = have two 20A Durst rectifiers - if the time ever comes that I need more than 20A, should I parallel the = outputs of the two, or separate the outputs to run different divisions? And how about the telco wiring color code? I have never seen a printed = code sheet. I suppose it is based on resistor color coding, but the stripes complicate things, besides = there being more than ten notes in an octave. Mac Hayes

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] rectifier wiring From: "Richard Schneider" <arpncorn@davesworld.net <mailto:arpncorn@davesworld.net>> Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 20:59:49 -0600 > Mac Hayes wrote: > Super information, Rich. Now, how about using multiple rectifiers? I = have two 20A Durst rectifiers > - if the time ever comes that I need more than 20A, should I parallel = the outputs of the two, or > separate the outputs to run different divisions? Then Ron Natalie responded: > Keep them separate. Most things in an organ would never notice a one = volt difference > between the rectifiers, but they would if you plugged them together. That's correct. What would happen is that the "stronger" Rectifier would assume the load, up until it said "tilt", then it would all fall to the "weaker" one. The best plan is to keep the negatives tied together between all of the rectifiers. On larger jobs, we frequently "plant" rectifiers everywhere they're going to be used, such as one for the Great, one for the Swell, one or two in the console, (depending on the # of drawknobs used, etc.) But in all instances, there's a healthy negative cable running between ALL of the rectifiers to keep them referenced to each other. Of course, one has to be sure with this scheme that the other side of the line is referenced back to the correct Rectifier! > And how about the telco wiring color code? I have never seen a printed = > code sheet. David Scribner so kindly made one available on the reference page and made mention of it in a previous post. Faithfully, "Arp in the Corn Patch"

Pipewheezr@aol.com <mailto:Pipewheezr@aol.com> wrote: > I have a question about power supplies. > How many amps. To run ten ranks of straight chest's, eleven ranks of DE > chest's and seven or eight ranks Electro-Pneumatic? Plus or minus a few > goodies later! > Thank you for the information. Eleventy Bazillion Amps! Seriously: You need to come up with the current draw of the magnets in question and then calculate. You do this by going to Radio Shack and investing in a $9.95 Digital Ohmmeter and then go measure the resistance of all of the magnets you anticipate using and "charting" that information for reference purposes. Simple Ohm's Law tells us that Current in Amps is calculated by the following simple equation: Amps =3D Volts/Resistance (expressed in Ohms). = For simplicity in calculation, we'll use the following example: a 50 Ohm Chest Magnet on 15 Volts will use 0.3 Amps of current. Obviously: the higher the resistance, the lower the current draw is, which is why it is important to know this. Now, if you were going to use 100% of all of the magnets, you'd need a power supply capable of delivering the amount of power I suggested above, but in practice, you "de-rate" this staggering sum by figuring out the maximum number of magnets that could possibly be playing at any given time with all of the stops on X 10 Fingers + 2 Feet. This would give you a Demand Factor. You would also add a "fudge factor" to this to make allowance for current drop due to runs of wire, etc. Since the cables themselves also have resistance to be calculated in. All of this means that I, nor anyone else, cannot simply give you an arbitrary number because there are so many variables involved. However, you should now have enough information that you should be able to work out the calculations for yourself in short order. Faithfully, Grandpa Arp