Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue Pots---

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 00:48:02 EST

Hi Listers---- Some months ago, glue pots and the use thereof etc. was covered on this or another list. At that time,,,someone recommended making up a small baby food jar, or pickle jar worth of glue, and keeping it hot on one of those small "hotplates" made for a mug of coffee, letting it cool after use,,capping it and storing in the fridge to keep the mold and spores outta it. When ready to use it again, microwave it up hot, and put back on the hotplate again for re-use. I gotta say,,,I immediately adopted that method and have been quite satisfied with the operation. Glue pots seem only to be available in about quart size,,and that should be enuf to do a whole organ! Aside from that, if one puts just a "little" in the bottom of the glue pot,,,the thermostatic control does not seem to work as well as a full pot and it will burn. And the surface area in a glue pot is so much larger,,the glue "skins" and thickens at a more rapid rate than in a smaller jar. Just a thawt---- Regards, ---Roc

----------------------------------

Subject: Re: Glue Pots---

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 04:33:33 EST

The best shaped jar is Kraft Marshmellow Cream (IMHO). It is wide on the bottom and more narrow on the top and sits just fine in water in the electric glue pot. This way the glue pot is used only as a water bath and there are no cleanup problems. When one of the glue jars is empty it goes into the dishwasher and comes out ready for another batch. Al Sefl

-----------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue Pots---

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 10:44:59 EST

Hi organ holic's.Another glue that I have had good luck with is fish glue that Columbia organ leather sell's.It does dry too fast because it is not heated ,if you need more working time you add a little more or glue.I would not have be able to do pouch work at night in the house with a glue pot going, it is a little to fragrent.Dog's would be going crazy along with my wife.Fish glue need's no heat,comes off easy with water,it is great for repair's in hard to get to location's.Even the organ guy who used to be down hill wi;; use it for that.Call Columbia Organ Leather's if you are intrested.I will find the number today and put up tomorrow.They also do pouche's,and sell regulater leather and do releathering of all most any thing. Dennis

---------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Cheap Glue Pots

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 11:52:56 EST

I've found that an old "crock pot," available for a dollar or two at thrift stores or yard sales, can work well for hot glue. Look for one that has a "warm" setting, and it'll probably hold near the desired 140 degrees. Then put in a couple inches of water, and set your glass jar of glue in it. Since a pan of warm water and a "hot rag" are also handy when working with hot glue, I've also found that a glass-topped "hot tray" (back to the yard sale/thrift store) is excellent for keeping a pan of water at a good temperature. These were (still are?) sold for keeping food dishes warm during a meal. My tray is about 18" long, and I keep a pot of warm water on one end. You can lightly wring out a cloth (a discarded terry wash cloth is good), fold it, and lay it directly on the glass surface at the other end before you make a glue joint, then you have a hot cloth ready to grab to clean up excess glue. I've found this to be really handy in doing reed organ bellows or organ reservoirs. If you find the kind of warming tray that has a special, hotter circle in one corner (intended for a coffee pot) it might work for warming hot glue also, but I haven't tried that. Last tip: If you're going to leave your hot glue unused for more than a couple minutes, I've found that putting a thin film of water on top with a couple squirts from a spray bottle, like an old "Fantastik" bottle set to "mist" (be sure it's cleaned completely free of soap!), will delay that "skin" from forming on the glue. Just give it a quick stir when you're ready to use it again. Hope some of this is helpful--"it works for me." Doug

-----------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Cheap Glue Pots

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:12 -0500

Anyone ever try hot glue on pancakes or waffles?? It really sticks to your ribs on cold winter days! Rick

--------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re: [Residence Organs] Glue Pots and Glues

Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 12:05:58 EST

-------------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hide Glue.

Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 19:55:57 -0600

At 08:01 AM 1/24/00 +0800, you wrote: >Can anyone give me some directions for mixing and cooking hide glue. I, and others I'm sure, do it the "easy" way buy putting a quantity of flakes or granules into the pot, and adding just enough water to cover. Let sit, ideally, for three or four hours then heat. Of coarse, you can deviate from this for special situations. Hello all,

------------------------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Hide Glue.

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 00:01:50 -0500

Generally what I do is fill the bottom of the pan with granuals, and add water to just cover the top of the granuals. As it heats, the consistancy can be checked to add more glue to thicken, or add water to thin. Reheating in a nuke-oven, add just a little water so it can cook up again. Tip: on gluing leather (or whatever) to end-grain wood, coat a thin "primer" of glue, let it soak in and dry to seal the open grain, then paint on more glue to apply leather- or whatever. Rick

------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Hide Glue.

Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 16:16:26 EST

Dear Bruce: Thank you for rejecting all of the future problems caused by the white casein based glues. For rebuilds there is only one glue to trust, hot hide glue. Whole organs have been taken to the dumps because the wrong glues were used on them. > Can anyone give me some directions for mixing and cooking hide glue. Hide glue is already cooked so it should never be taken over 180 degrees Fahrenheit and the normal electric hot glue pot runs about 135-140 degree F. > I have used hide glue in the past, but have never had to do the initial preparation. For most jobs a smaller batch will do just fine. Take an empty Kraft Marshmallow Cream bottle and put 2 inches of glue flakes into the bottle. Over the dry glue flakes pour in room temperature distilled water until the flakes are just covered a bit but with some still showing above the surface. Put on the screw cover and let stand overnight......... The next day with water heated already in the electric glue pot or in a double broiler on the stove, put the Kraft jar into the water for heating. A cooking thermometer will let you know when the glue is at working temperature. After you use the glue, the jar may be cleaned with a rag having hot water, the top replaced then the jar goes into the refrigerator for storage until you need it again. It will keep for months in the fridge. To get it quickly up to temperature the jar may be microwaved on low once the lid is removed (I leave the lid on which is OK as long as it is loose and not touching any other metal inside). A touch of water over the surface is good and can be mixed in when the glue has softened. > I currently have a supply of hide glue (flakes/granules) from Organ Supply > Industries, but there is no data on gram strength or mixing ratios given. I guess it is understood that only pros having done this for years would be using the glue and no instructions would be needed. > I ahave checked the diyapason resources section and the links from there, > but the mix ratios seem to vary widely, with some using simple 50/50 by > volume, and others using other ratios, and others using weights. Just cover the flakes slightly on initial preparation. You will constantly have to add water (I prefer distilled) as time goes by because the glue will lose water by evaporation. You can slow this by having any old flat object to lay across the mouth of the jar when you are not using the glue. > I followed an interesting thread about this on the theatre organ list some > time back and thought I had saved the information, but when I went looking > for it I could not find it. I am also interested in methods which reheat > the glue in a microwave, as I currently do not have access to a glue-pot. A double broiler will work well with water in the top section too. The working temperature of the glue is not critical but above 140 degrees F the glue "skins over" quickly and will have to be sprayed with a quick shot of water from a spray bottle then mixed again. Using a microwave alone without a water jacket of some type will mean that you will be constantly having to test temperature then putting the glue back into the microwave on a regular basis. A water jacket will retain heat and allow you more working time between microwave breaks! > Thanks in advance. > David Bruce >> Al Sefl Editor of "TheGluePot" the ATOS Pipe Organ Owners Group newsletter........... p.s.: For glue pots many have successfully used old crock pots, baby bottle heater, etc., found at Salvation Army for only a few dollars. p.p.s.: Fish glues are used at room temperature on the new slick pnuematic leathers and this is OK as they dry just like the hot glues to where they can be sanded off for rebuilds.

------------------------------------------------

4) Barge Cement is good only for leather to leather connections where gusset leather meets rib leather. At the rebuild it goes into the garbage. You wouldn't use it on wood to leather because you would then have to plane down the wood to get a new gluing surface. If you can find someone with a copy, read The Glue Pot issue dealing with hot glue and all of the other kinds of glue. Almost every glue topic is dealt with in relationship to organbuilding. One last thought. During my apprenticeship I was taught that gussets went down directly on the wood for maximum strength then the rib leather was laid on top of the already glued gussets. I have seen other rebuilders and even some manufacturers reverse the order but cannot understand why. If someone has an answer I would appreciate it since I don't think you would normally give up strength for a faster assembly. Regards to the list, Al Sefl

-------------------------------------

Subject: Re: Barge Cement/Glue

Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 15:33:14 EDT >

One question from your message... What is barge glue? In my British & > Canadian training I have never encountered the term ... Perhaps it is > something that I know by another name. > Cheers > Hugh >> Greetings Hugh: Barge Cement is a brand name for a leather cement used in shoe making and shoe repair. It is a type of rubber cement with a very volatile hydrocarbon carrier like acetone. You must use it in a well-ventilated area or get bombed and brain-damaged in the process (that explains a lot with me). It is strong and tenacious to the point of annoyance if you get it on you or applied where you don't want it. All good shoe repair and leather crafts stores have it. It is completely water resistant to the point that I have had the Russian River just north of me flood over a regulator which completely came apart, except for the connections between the gussets and the rib leathers where I used Barge Cement. Sorry, I don't know what would be a comparable product outside of the US. Regards, Al

------------------------------------

Subject: [Residence Organs] Re: Barge Cement/Glue

Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:07:55 -0400

Hi Al & List Somewhat embarrassingly, I now realize that I was already familiar with barge cement. I stopped using it many years ago (probably because of the fumes) and started using "leather weld" by Tandy or "felt & leather glue" from O.S.I. (I don't deal with them much). I only use these products when I am joining leather to leather (or felt), and NEVER when gluing to wood (shamefully, I admit that I have done that in the past). When making up pallet leather (combined with felt), I cut out pieces of felt, and apply them to the hair (smooth side .. "scored" with sandpaper)) side of leather, and leave them to dry with weights (books?) on top. I apply the glue to the leather (not the felt). I prefer to do it this way because this form of joint remains "flexible". This is one instance where I do not use either fish or hide glue. One needs to pay particular attention to where the glue joints are. I have re-leathered many an instrument, where the leather would have survived a further 60-100 years, BUT the glue created a "knife-like edge" which cut through working leathers... this was often where a fibre disk was glued to a pneumatic pouch.... but sometimes is where the pouch is glued too closely to the edge of a pouch hole (this edge should always be "eased"). Hugh

-----------------------------------

Subject: Re: [Residence Organs] Re: Glues: Which is better?

Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 07:57:46 -0700

At the suggestion of an organ serviceman/friend, I acquired a baby bottle warmer for $3 at a thrift store. Glass baby food jars fit very nicely in mine, and I mix a smallish amount of hot hide glue in the jar. The bottle warmer heats it to working tamperature in about 5 minutes, and the jar stores unobtrusively in the refrigerator when not being used. The big glue pot only gets dug out for big jobs. Needless to say, I use hot glue for nearly everything.

------------------------------------